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2011-05-24, 07:10 | #1 |
接觸攀言
註冊日期: 2011-05
文章: 3
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[求助]何謂Z形攀登?
最近在高雄的和春電影院看了一部攀岩的電影:北峰North Face
男主角使用Z形攀登,不知是不是翻譯的問題, 找不到z形攀登的資料 |
2011-05-24, 10:18 | #2 |
重度攀言者
註冊日期: 2003-05
住址: 太陽數過來第三顆石頭
文章: 190
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2011-05-24, 11:58 | #3 |
攀言癌症患者
註冊日期: 1999-11
住址: Madison
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如果是德國人拍的 Nordwand(North Face,愛格北壁),我看過這部影片(拍的很棒),但記不清楚了,好像有提到 zigzag(Z型攀登)。
可能是 Anmin 所說的擺盪(Pendulum),因為這部影片還原了 Eigar 攀登史上很重要的一次技術突破:“Hinterstoisser Traverse”。主角之一的 Hinterstoisse 利用大擺盪突破了當時被認為不可能攀登的一段地形。 但也可能指的是現在大家熟知的(冰雪攀登常用的)之字型坡度攀登。記得兩位主角在一次露宿時,半夜小雪崩帶走了冰爪,可是又不想因為沒冰爪撤退,所以在討論 Hinterstoisser Traverse 以後的那段大冰坡怎麼爬時,有一位就說用登山鞋踢出冰階沿著之字型路線上攀(以減少陡削度)。 如果真的是這部影片,那麼以上兩點僅供參考。 |
2011-05-24, 20:17 | #4 |
重度攀言者
註冊日期: 2003-05
住址: 太陽數過來第三顆石頭
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雖然學過一年, 但我的德文其實很糟, 當幾次電影字幕上寫 "Z字攀登" 的時候,
我聽不太出來到底原文是什麼, 但是電影場景那幾次都是正好在執行大牆攀登的擺盪技術. 其實看這片的時候一直很懷疑像艾格北壁這種難度的 怎麼可能沒有冰爪能爬? 當然歷史, 小說上記載的古代人, 不論東西, 通常都比現代人厲害的多~ WIKI (當然也不能拿來當証明啦~) 有關這段的描寫.. Toni Kurz 是有穿冰爪的... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiger Attempts on the north face 1936 ..... In the morning the three guides came back, traversing across the face from a hole near the Eigerwand station and risking their lives under incessant avalanches. Toni Kurz was still alive but almost helpless, with one hand and one arm completely frostbitten. Kurz hauled himself off the cliff after cutting loose the rope that bound him to his dead teammate below and climbed back on the face. The guides were not able to pass an unclimbable overhang that separated them from Kurz. They managed to give him a rope long enough to reach them by tying two ropes together. While descending, Kurz could not get the knot to pass through his carabiner. He tried for hours to reach his rescuers who were only a few metres below him. Then he began to lose consciousness. One of the guides, climbing on another's shoulders, was able to touch the tip of Kurz's crampons with his ice-axe but could not reach higher. Kurz was unable to descend farther and, completely exhausted, died slowly. 救援隊靠疊羅漢的方式可以用冰斧碰到 Toni 的冰爪, 但是沒辦法再高了.... |
2011-06-07, 11:27 | #5 |
攀言癌症患者
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前幾天有空, 就借了圖書館的 "Nordwand"(North Face)再看一遍。雖然是看第二遍,還是覺得很好看!
版本是德文發音,英文字幕。德文我完全不懂,但確定全片沒有 "Z字攀登" 的英文,有的只是 "cross”,“traverse","diagonal" 幾個可能和 "Z" 字有關的英文。 倒是在艾格北壁早期攀登古典權威之作,"The White Spider"(作者 Heinrich Harrer 為首攀成功隊成員之一,他後來寫的 “Seven Years in Tibet” 也是名著,被拍成電影)第四章,在描述 Andreas Hinterstoisser 利用大擺盪突破 "Hinterstoisser Traverse" 時,有下列這段話: "Andreas Hinterstoisser was the first to achieve the traverse to the First Ice Field, climbing in textbook fashion with the help of the rope. This technique of the 'rope traverse' had already been discovered and developed before the First World War by that master of rock climbing, Hans Dülfer, during his first ascent of the East Face of the Fleischbank and the West Wall of the Totenkirchl in the Kaisergebirge. In this way Dülfer showed how to link climbable pitches by the use of a diagonal 'lift' from the rope on unclimbable ones." (p. 38) 另一本經典之作,Doug Scott 的 “Big Wall Climbing” 一書也有這樣的記載: " . . . the rope manoeuvre called the 'Dülfersitz' was developed at the same time. This was an abseil-pendulum swing enabling a smooth holdless slab to be crossed . . ." (p. 24) 所以 Hans Dülfer 在1910年代就發明了擺盪技巧是毋庸置疑的。Hans Dülfer 是德國人,而我猜無論是 Heinrich Harrer 所稱的 “rope traverse”,或是 Doug Scott 所謂的 “ abseil-pendulum swing”,德文應該是 “pendulum traverse” (而不是簡化的英文 “traverse”)。如果是這樣,德文 “pendulum traverse” 翻為 “Z形攀登” 倒是蠻傳神的。所以 Anmin 的說法應該是正確的,中文翻譯也沒錯,只是現代人不用這個名辭而已。只可惜看不到德文,不然就提供給 Anmin 作為參考,讓這個名辭尋根更傳神、精準。 值得一提的是,除了擺盪,Hans Dülfer 也發明了 「背向後倚」(layback)的動作和「過肩下降法」 (Dülfersitz abseiling)。「背向後倚」大家都熟,但「過肩下降」可能不熟,但它是我們早期攀岩者必修項目之一。 另節錄 "The White Spider" 裡的一段話,和主題無關,只是覺得寫的很好,和同好共享: "Climbing is the most royal irrationality out of which man, in his creative imagination, has been able to fashion the highest personal value. Those personal values, which we gain from our approach to the mountains, are great enough to enrich our life. Is not the irrationality of its very lack of purpose the deepest argument for climbing?" (p. 21) 我喜歡 “irrationality of its very lack of purpose ” 這句話。 此文章於 2011-06-12 09:49 被 大濟 編輯. 原因: 加 Doug Scott 資料 |